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Zuramaru

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PostSubject: Re: Pokemon Tabletop Adventures   Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:10 am

sorry gaise di ako makakapunta

di pa ko gumagaling e

trangkaso since friday

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Datenshi Yohane
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PostSubject: Re: Pokemon Tabletop Adventures   Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:08 pm

tinatamad din ako lumabas e XD

besides, it's not as fun pag wala si andrew
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PostSubject: Re: Pokemon Tabletop Adventures   Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:04 pm

PTA Miracle Eye Updates!

Due to the events of the Mission yesterday (CF6: Secret of the Lost Valley), both Tenran and Luke will be unavailable for use by the players since the mission is still ongoing.

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PostSubject: Re: Pokemon Tabletop Adventures   Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:33 pm

I have a suggestion regarding Daily features:

PTA Features were made with casual trainer battles / Gym / League battles in mind.
Because Miracle Eye OSS files usually last less than a day (in-game) and have more non-league encounters per mission, a lot of features (and consequently, classes) become less appealing -- most notably features that let you use Pokemon moves, Coordinator features and Mystic's Borrow features. Other classes also suffer from this.

They are not overpowered:

  • For offense features, trainer leveling is quite slow for OSS, so most likely you have a Pokemon capable of doing the same move, but with a lot more damage. You're also usually putting your trainer in harm's way. Most Martial Artist features are Daily.
  • Advanced Coordinator features are almost always daily, due to the fact that contests are usually held once a day. In a non-contest environment, the effects wear off once the Pokemon is recalled, which is pretty lame. In contests, you rarely (if ever) recall your Pokemon.
  • Mystic's Daily Borrow-type features: You can borrow a move (or a feature for Bodysnatcher) that you can use once in 24 hours. You get 1 chance to use Flamethrower or Body Slam. That's it. Then you have to use your STR for Atk and WIS for SpAtk, meaning you have to distribute evenly. Meaning your borrowed moves will usually be weak.
  • Coach features only last for 1 round. And they're Daily. Balanced for league matches, absolutely horrible for OSS.
  • Researcher features are pretty weak for OSS. 'Nuff said.
    <insert other classes here>


My suggestion:

  • Option 1:
    For most Daily features, just double the usage frequency to twice a day. Optional: You may also decrease the "every 10 levels for additional usage" to every 8 or something.
  • Option 2: (I like this one)
    Allow Pokemon-move features to be used At-Will outside of battles/encounters. You can Karate Chop that tree for as long as you have a hand. Of course, more powerful moves like Dragon Pulse are exhausting and require some rest. GM decides resting (cooldown) period.
    Retain Daily use when in-battle/encounter.
    Other features (borrow, coach, etc), refer to option 1.


For other, more controversial features, ask the current GM.

Note that if this rule gets accepted, most CapSpec features should be ignored, or they will catch everything and leave nothing for their teammates. XD

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PostSubject: Re: Pokemon Tabletop Adventures   Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:51 pm

Those are tempting ideas:

On one hand, as a Mystic, I can borrow a move twice in one day and with Sponge, I can take up three moves.

On the other hand, it is rather exciting to see how trainers use their features effectively by planning their movements during battle and story.

We should let Albert decide on this since he is the Universe Creator.
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Zuramaru

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PostSubject: Re: Pokemon Tabletop Adventures   Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:23 pm

Actually, Sponge only lets you borrow 3 different moves simultaneously from a single source. And it specifically says that it doesn't allow you to use Borrow more than once a day.

Yea, I considered the "planning and not spamming" part of the features. I like that. But if you take a look at Psychic Pokemon-move features, they're mostly At-Will, making Martial Artists pretty lame.

Actually there's a viable Option 3: Make other Daily Pokemon-move features At-Will but drain HP per use. Just like Psychics. For balance, Martial Artists features should take more HP than Psychic, considering they have +HP features.
Borrowing features should still be twice or 3 times per day though, 'cause you can potentially borrow overpowered moves like Eruption or something.

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Vir

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PostSubject: Re: Pokemon Tabletop Adventures   Mon Nov 25, 2013 9:59 pm

I think the primary reason why the Psychic move features are At-Will is because without them, the Psychics would be predominantly useless in battle. However, the Martial Artists can and most likely do kick-ass even without the use of the Fighting move features. This makes me think that for Martial Artists, the use of Pokemon Moves would be likely similar to a Finishing Move/Special Attack, like Goku's Turtle God Wave, Luffy's Gigant Pistol, or Naruto's Rasengan. Without access to the Psychic moves, the Psychic Class is basically epically useless in fighting alongside their Pokemon. Without access to the Fighting moves, the Martial Artist Class will still kick ass and crack skulls, since Combat Focus stacks with Arms User.

The Mystic class will be horribly broken if you allow multiple Borrows per day, I believe. Being able to use something like Giga Impact or Hyper Beam even twice in one day is too much. Anyway, it only seems like the Daily Borrow of the Mystic is lacking since your characters are still low-ranking Investigators and the missions you are taking are relatively easy and quick to finish. Higher rank entails harder and longer missions (that's what she said). Take for example Luke and Tenran, who are currently still stuck in a mission (CF6: Secret of the Lost Valley). Due to their decisions regarding the mission, it was not able to be finished in 1 day, and they are thus stuck in a mission that will take a minimum of 3 days more to complete.

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Zuramaru

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PostSubject: Re: Pokemon Tabletop Adventures   Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:57 pm

Nah you can't Borrow the same move twice in a day.

I actually thought of the Martial Artist just punching everything anyway, but after I made that post. Just too lazy to edit. XD
Martial Artist dailies dismissed.

What about advanced coordinators then? Unless you only have 1 Pokemon that you won't ever recall, their Daily features are iffy at best.

In any case, I just want to see features used more frequently. I already have something in mind for an alternate character, but it's still a Psychic. Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Pokemon Tabletop Adventures   Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:00 am

Quote :
Researcher features are pretty weak for OSS
They are, I guess. But all that matters to me is that my character is a Researcher to fit his profile just the way I want it. I really don't mind Stanley having sub-par/not so helpful OSS skills (mainly because he is anti-social and thus finds it troublesome to actively try and help his teammates). I took this carefully into account when I designed him, for convenience.

Then again, I wouldn't complain if the class gets buffed by magical GM overworld abilities. Who doesn't like buffs on their character?

The thing is, if we played PTA in a more competitive way, this would really be an issue. Because then everyone would pick the class with the most helpful features. And it would be boring, like using a full team of Dragonite to beat the Elite Four plus Champion. Buffing/nerfing would then be necessary, no doubt. But we mostly play it in cooperative mode, fighting against the GM (technically) and his evil, evil underlings. So I really think there is no need for changes, even if some classes become more useless than others. I actually like how Stanley fails to fully utilize his features. It's more realistic that way.

I don't know about other classes though.

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PostSubject: Re: Pokemon Tabletop Adventures   Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:19 am

Quote :
Because then everyone would pick the class with the most helpful features. And it would be boring, like using a full team of Dragonite to beat the Elite Four plus Champion.
Not really. Considering how we usually play, we'd pick whatever we want anyway. It's also highly likely we ostracize anyone who wants even a single Dragonite in his team.

Note that I'm only proposing the changes for the Miracle Eye OSS universe. Not PTA as a whole. No Elite Four or Gym battles here.
The whole thing about it is a bit of lore. I don't think the Agency would hire, and even promote to a higher rank, people who are generally useless for them. With that, an issue of variety when it comes to choosing classes fit for being an operative.

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PostSubject: Re: Pokemon Tabletop Adventures   Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:13 am

Again, my point was that the competitive and cooperative environments are very different, and that in my opinion, playing in coop doesn't need changes because classes don't exactly need to be balanced because the characters are not competing against each other (EDIT: unlike in a competitive setting, where "picking whatever we want" would mean some of us inevitably picking the less useful classes regardless of utility, which is unfavorable in said competitive setting).

I'm not against balancing though. I'm just saying that considering our cooperative mode of playing, it would have little effect (besides your increase in satisfaction due to the additional max feature frequencies, which is a plus, but possibly not worth the trouble).

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PostSubject: Re: Pokemon Tabletop Adventures   Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:15 am

I wouldn't say that Researcher features are useless. I think that the nature of the character, as Baste has said, just doesn't fully utilize the features.

Game plan, Game Plan +, Field Commander, Tactical Response: Very useful if the user thinks more strategically in battle
Frantic Research, Trait THeory, Did their homework: Effective during boss fights
Read the Manual: Useful investigation tool
Strategic Targeting: Useful for low accuracy type moves

I'm already pretty much satisfied with how my borrow is right now so I don't really care for an upgrade on frequency.

For seeing more features in the RP, please understand that during the last games, only you and Niccolo have multiple classes and as such, have access to more features. If we all had multiple classes already then features would be used more frequently. In Niccolo's case, he would have used a few more features but just forgets to use them at times (I think). In my case, I have already three classes but I can't use the third classes until I get back to civilization. Once I do, expect more usage on skills.
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PostSubject: Re: Pokemon Tabletop Adventures   Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:35 am

Quote :
What about advanced coordinators then? Unless you only have 1 Pokemon that you won't ever recall, their Daily features are iffy at best.
You do remember that my character is a Smart Teacher, right? I'm aware of this, and as such, the moment that I declare activation of Smart Planning, you can be pretty sure that whoever I have out (whether it's Amber or Jasmine) will no longer be recalled until either the mission is over, another day has passed, or something life-threatening happens to them (in which case Gus freaks out and starts looking for someone/something to stab). Then again, that's how I play Gus.

Quote :
The whole thing about it is a bit of lore. I don't think the Agency would hire, and even promote to a higher rank, people who are generally useless for them. With that, an issue of variety when it comes to choosing classes fit for being an operative.
"Miracle Eye Agency is an equal opportunity employer and will not discriminate against any employee or applicant on the basis of age, color, disability, gender, species, mechanical configuration, national origin, race, religion, sexual orientation, veteran status, or any classification protected by global, regional, or local law. Consistent with its obligations under regional law, each company that is a regional contractor or subcontractor is committed to taking affirmative action to employ and advance in employment qualified women, minorities, disabled individuals, special disabled veterans, veterans of the Pre-Darkness era, and other eligible veterans." - Company Disclaimer

Agency policy is that as long as you have a trainer license, you are eligible for hiring as a Rookie. Afterwards, it does not matter what your Trainer Class is, the important part is that you can get things done during missions. If for some reason your Class Features are rendered useless on a mission that you signed up for, it becomes a test of your ability to think on your feet and improvise with the materials and resources you have at hand. True, this may mean that some Trainer Classes become more desirable than others, but in that regard, it also becomes much more satisfying to finish high-ranking missions while on a Class handicap (parang nag-Nuzlocke challenge ka lang).

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PostSubject: Re: Pokemon Tabletop Adventures   Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:15 am

So basically, the less useful classes just leech some EXP from teammates. Unless some random choreographer or dream doctor wants to solo a do-or-die mission. XD

I just want to open up some more options for those of us who want to be of some use during missions (like me or Andrew). Else we'd be stuck in the usual MA/Mystic/Psychic/Ranger. Even Rangers have limited OSS use, unless you're SpecOps.

The impact is minimal anyway. Most Daily features can increase frequency "for every X levels". Increasing the base frequency to twice a day is just to offset the relative slowness in time and leveling. We get more action-packed situations in our OSS. Unlike normal campaigns where you can spend 30mins just doing yoga or sleep for 8 hours, we usually don't have that much luxury in waiting for features' cooldown. Because, you know, a lot of people might die / the town will be destroyed if we wait too long.

Anyway, it's fine if we don't implement any changes.

Spoiler:
 

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PostSubject: Re: Pokemon Tabletop Adventures   Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:43 pm

Wait why was I an example?

I've proven myself a lot of times in the different missions I've been in given the limitations I have. Also, I wouldn't say Rangers, and their advanced classes, are not useless in OSSs.

If only you made an alliance with a legendary, Signers are great.
COmmanders are good support units.
Investigators are very effective in villain and some darkness missions.
Survivalists are great when it comes to using arms features and weather skills.

It would just depend on how the player makes use of what he has. Even a severely limited character, if used wisely, can be a great asset.

Just saying.
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PostSubject: Re: Pokemon Tabletop Adventures   Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:27 pm

eto bagong character sheet; mali pagkakaintindi ko sa move list.

kahawig nan ito yung campaign character sheet (yung binigay ni albert nung pinakaunang laro).

gaya ng sinabi ko dati, print na lang kayo ng kopya nyo o pa-photocopy nyo itong nasakin.
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final version: changed pokemon data page to allow for more moves
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Zuramaru

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PostSubject: Re: Pokemon Tabletop Adventures   Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:09 pm

jazzmeister wrote:
I wouldn't say that Researcher features are useless. I think that the nature of the character, as Baste has said, just doesn't fully utilize the features.

Game plan, Game Plan +, Field Commander, Tactical Response: Very useful if the user thinks more strategically in battle
Frantic Research, Trait THeory, Did their homework: Effective during boss fights
Read the Manual: Useful investigation tool
Strategic Targeting: Useful for low accuracy type moves
Yes, I have already considered how they should be used. Like Game Plan on an Electrode and have it explode in the target's face.
They are relatively good, but do note that most are still Daily features. If you get more than one boss/mini-boss encounter in a day, you're pretty much screwed. You can use them more times at higher trainer levels, though. Will take a few weeks, unless you start out with a higher level.

jazzmeister wrote:
It would just depend on how the player makes use of what he has. Even a severely limited character, if used wisely, can be a great asset.
Martial Artists, Mystics and Psychics work great for any kind of mission.
Just saying.
Anyway I think it's just my OCD trying to level the "Imaginary Graph of Class Usability".

Maybe I'll just make a few alternate characters for specific missions.


Note 1: Whatever happens, minimal impact for me. I don't really plan on using the other classes even with increased frequencies. Still feels nice to have that option.
Note 2: My new character will start out as a Ninja via storyline (no stat bonuses). Born in a ninja village, it would make sense that he's a ninja before he became a trainer. I can do this yes?

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PostSubject: Re: Pokemon Tabletop Adventures   Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:13 am

Quote :
Note 2: My new character will start out as a Ninja via storyline (no stat bonuses). Born in a ninja village, it would make sense that he's a ninja before he became a trainer. I can do this yes?
Ninja as a job, yes. Not Ninja as a Character Class. If you start as an Investigator, (TL5), then your character class is a Martial Artist/Ninja (TL1 Martial Artist with 13Str, 14Dex, then +1 Dex every level until TL5 as Ninja) OR Poison Ace/Ninja (TL1 Trainer with 14Con, 14Dex, then +1 Dex until TL3, Change Class to Ninja, get 2 levels as Ninja).

Personally, I'd go for the 2nd option. That way you already have 4 Poison pokemon with you. I still need to ask the PTA Forums on the rule regarding Type Ace (If the requirement is 4 Owned Pokemon of the same type, does it have to be individual pokemon, or does evolved forms count? Example: Which one meets the requirements for Poison Ace: A Trainer with 1 Beedrill (evolved from Weedle) and 1 Arbok (evolved from Ekans), or A Trainer with 4 Weedles, or A Trainer with a Beedrill, an Arbok, a Koffing, and a Gulpin?)

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PostSubject: Re: Pokemon Tabletop Adventures   Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:11 am

Sad. I can't use Rasengan and Chidori until TL25 (4th class).

Can you update the reference topic to include guidelines for creating another character?

Like the maximum number of owned Pokemon we can have at the start?
Also the number of natural and TM/Tutor/Egg moves for each.

Quote :
If the requirement is 4 Owned Pokemon of the same type, does it have to be individual pokemon, or does evolved forms count?
I'm 99% sure the unevolved forms count, so long as you evolved the Pokemon yourself.
So if your starter is a Nidoran, by the time you get to Nidoking, you have 3 Poison types 'owned' in your dex.
"Type Ace: Ace Trainer, 4 of the same Type Pokemon Owned in Pokedex"
For cross-classing, "Ace Trainer" was just replaced by a stat requirement of 14 CON. The handbook is full of ambiguous wording.

I think I'm gonna go with Mystic (I'm fickle). Their second-hand approach to everything is amusing.

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PostSubject: Re: Pokemon Tabletop Adventures   Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:51 am

Quote :
Sad. I can't use Rasengan and Chidori until TL25 (4th class).
Wrong tabletop.

Quote :
Can you update the reference topic to include guidelines for creating another character?
What do you mean by this? The character guidelines are already there, dependent on the Rank that you start with. To clarify:

Rookie: Your character is at TL0, Maximum of 1 Pokemon Owned. Pokemon is at Lv10. Pokemon may have up to 1 Egg OR TM OR HM OR Tutor Moves. They may have any mix of Natural Moves up to their Level.

Jr. Investigator: Your Character is at TL1, with 1 Badge of your Choice. You may have up to 5 Owned Pokemon. Each Pokemon may have up to 2 Egg OR TM OR HM OR Tutor Moves. They may have any mix of Natural Moves up to their Level. Their number of Natural Moves at the start may not exceed 4. None of your Pokemon can exceed Lv20.

Investigator: Your Character is at TL5, with 2 Badges of your Choice and 1 Basic Class or Advanced Cross Class. You may have up to 10 Owned Pokemon. Each Pokemon may have up to 3 Egg OR TM OR HM OR Tutor Moves. They may have any mix of Natural Moves up to their Level. Their number of Natural Moves at the start may not exceed 5. None of your Pokemon can exceed Lv30. Your declared Starter may not be lower than level 25.

Sr. Investigator: Your Character is at TL10, with 3 Badges of your Choice and 2 Basic Classes and/or Advanced and/or Cross Class. You may have up to 15 Owned Pokemon. Each Pokemon may have up to 3 Egg OR TM OR HM OR Tutor Moves. They may have any mix of Natural Moves up to their Level. Their number of Natural Moves at the start may not exceed 6. None of your Pokemon can exceed Lv40. Your declared Starter may not be lower than level 30.

Jr. Operative: Your Character is at TL15, with 4 Badges of your Choice and 2 Basic Classes and/or Advanced and/or Cross Class.. You may have up to 20 Owned Pokemon. Each Pokemon may have up to 4 Egg OR TM OR HM OR Tutor Moves. They may have any mix of Natural Moves up to their Level, with a maximum of 7 Natural Moves. None of your Pokemon can exceed Lv50. Your declared Starter may not be lower than level 40.

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PostSubject: Re: Pokemon Tabletop Adventures   Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:08 pm

Quote :
Each Pokemon may have up to 3 Egg OR TM OR HM OR Tutor Moves. They may have any mix of Natural Moves up to their Level. Their number of Natural Moves at the start may not exceed 5. None of your Pokemon can exceed Lv30. Your declared Starter may not be lower than level 25.
This is what I needed. Wasn't in the reference topic. Razz

Spoiler:
 

On another note, I suggest GMs give out the extra trainer levels for noteworthy actions as we play instead of after the mission, so the additional stats/features gained can be used. And it would be fun to see someone magically take another class in the midst of battle. XD
Reference:
Quote :
- If you do something that your GM believes noteworthy, they may award you a level at that time. (0-∞)

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PostSubject: Re: Pokemon Tabletop Adventures   Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:15 pm

Quote :
as we play
Seconded! I just want the "trainer experience" to be a little more real-time.
The only slight downside is the imminent allocation of stats/features and shit, which sometimes takes time.

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PostSubject: Re: Pokemon Tabletop Adventures   Wed Nov 27, 2013 1:05 pm

A good idea. I may implement it when I GM next time.

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PostSubject: Re: Pokemon Tabletop Adventures   Wed Nov 27, 2013 1:39 pm

Updated Niccolo's Character Sheet

Now with tables!
For those who want to write between the pretty lines.
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PostSubject: Re: Pokemon Tabletop Adventures   Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:10 pm

I'm alright with the suggestion of mid-game level up and class change, My only concern is the changing of class or getting features when the new class or features require certain items to be bought such as ranger, spec ops, juggler, engineer and others.
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